Nature Guide

[reknak]

Hi there, I noticed that there isn't much information about the sub school Nature of White Magic. I don't know if people actually still play Spellforce, but if you do Nature can actually be quite good and it's fun to play with. Just recently I have reached level 48 in free game mode. I play with White Magic: Nature & Boons and Mind Magic: Offensive. I won't go into detail about the gear, more about spells, tactics/strategies and which stats are important. Lets begin than .

Spells

The main reason to take Nature is because of it's three summonings. The three summonings are:
- Wolfs. Wolfs are extremely weak and deal minor damage, ignore them.
- Bears. While bears don't deal much damage, they are pretty good tanks. They have the most health of the three summonings and stay alive the longest. Your typical meatshield.
- Treewraiths. Treewaiths are your damage dealers. They deal good amounts of damage, hit fairly often and sometimes they cast decay on their enemies. When an enemy has Decay on it, the Treewraith will deal ~33% more damage to it since it lowers armor rating. This spell does not appear in OoD or BoW since it ranges from level 13 to level 20.

But Nature has a few other spells which may come in handy sometimes:
- Thorns. You cast Thorns on a friendly unit (e.g. a summonings) so that every enemy that hits it in close combat will take damage. The things is that in contrary to like diablo 2, enemies in spellforce have a similary health/damage ratio like your avatar, so you can kill enemies with Thorns.
- Aura of Regeneration. Aura that slowly regenerates life. Compared to Aura of Life, it's weak, but it does heal. I'm not sure if this aura also regenerates mana.
- Area Roots. Cast this on an area and enemies in the area will be bound to the ground for a short while (immobilizing them) and deals very little damage (level 20 deals 30 damage with each tick, total ~3-5 ticks). This spell costs relative much mana (100) compared to other Nature spells, but it may come in handy since it has a high range and you can seperate enemies with it. This spell does not appear in OoD or BoW since it ranges from level 13 to level 20.
- Roots. This spell is bugged for me (I can only cast it on allies instead of enemies), but maybe with other people it will work. Has the same effect of Area Roots but only one target. The good about it that it only costs 10 mana.
- Charm/Dominate Animal. Take control of target hostile animal (like spiders). Pretty good, however summonings are often better since Aura's dont work on dominated/charmed animals. Good though if you don't choose Boons.

Here's a list of the other Nature spells:
- Cure Disease. Rubbish, better sell it for cash. In all the spellforce games I've played, I only got diseased once in BoW in the Bone's quest.
- Cure Poison. Better than Cure Disease since more enemies cast poison, but still better to sell it.

Sub schools

Recommended sub school in combination with Nature is Boons:

Empowers your summonings greatly and deal massive damage to undead.

A school which contains damage spells:
Ice slows enemies and deals some damage (Ice Strike and Wave of Ice are good).
Fire deals damage overtime making it good against healers and just deals a good amount of damage (Fireball and Wave of Fire are good).
Death deals the most damage and has some good debuffs (Pain, Death, Aura of Suffofication and Aura of Weakness).
Offensive mind magic is good because of the Hypnotize spells and shock is fairly good against spell casters.

Stats requirements for the schools (for level 20 spells):

White Magic: wisdom 102, charisma 92.
Elemental Magic: wisdom 112, intelligence 112.
Black Magic: wisdom 92, intelligence 127.
Mind Magic: charisma 127, intelligence 102

Strategies/tactics with Nature

Offensive summoner. Summon about three Treewraiths and cast Aura of Eternity (or Aura of Fast Fightning) and use healing spells to heal them (if you can't effort to spend points in life, use White Essence, it's pretty good since it makes the unit faster, heals it a bit and gives it Thorns).

Defensive summoner. Summon one to more Bears and cast Thorns and healing spells to keep them alive. Good when you have other ranged units which deal the damage or if you make usage of damage spells. Recommended aura's are: Aura of Endurance (increases health), Aura of Weakness (reduces damage of enemies), Aura of Agility (increases the dogde chance) or Aura of Hypnotize (paralysis enemies till you attack them).

Stats

Strength. Only good when your Avatar will fight to. Don't forget that you can get +strength from gear to.

Stamina. You don't need to put points in this one since you have the invulnerability spells, healing spells, summonings which keep some or all enemies from your back and +stamina from gear.

Dexterity. Only when your Avatar will fight just like strength, although you already get a good amount of dexterity from Aura of Eternity (which is the best aura if your Avatar will fight to) if you have some +dexterity from gear (White aura's give +%).

Agility. Same as dexterity since Aura of Eternity also increases your agility.

Intelligence. Important for summonings and spellcasting. Higher intelligence allows you to control more summonings and you have more mana for damage spells.

Wisdom. Intelligence is better, only good if you really need more maximum mana for spells like Rain of Fire or Chain Fireball, but you can get that from gear to (there's 1 orb which adds +90 to mana and +90 to wisdom, which adds about ~270 mana).

Charisma. Very important since it makes your aura's better and increases the damage done by hallow like spells. If you have Mind Magic it's even more important to increase this one.

Gear

If your Avatar won't fight, intelligence and charisma will be the stats you want to boost with your gear(and wisdom a bit to). Therefore, robes and orbs will come in handy. If you won't get hit, take two orbs, if you want to play safe, take one orb and one shield.

If your Avatar will fight (like mine), all your stats are important (except wisdom), therefore the gear in SotP which have as requirement a specific level are often excellent since these increase most or all of the stats. An extremely good set for this strategie is Aonir's light (the set that renegerates health and mana), since it gives you a very high armor rating, allows you to stay longer alive due to the bonus health regen, allows you to control more summonings since it increases you mana regen (like intelligence) and gives a good amount to all your stats.

I hope this guide/info has been usefull to you .

[Androdion]

Pretty cool stuff man!

First of all let me just say that the magic schools anyone plays depend on either guidelines to what it's believed to be more efficient or plain personal preference. Well sometimes even both! Still I feel the need to state a couple of things:

-AoR increases the regeneration rate of HP am MP so it doesn't actually heal. It just decreases the amount of time HP and MP take to regenerate.

-Compared to other schools Nature's summons are pretty weak...all of them.

-When you Charm/Dominate an animal or enemy (with MM) you'll convert him into an NPC that protects you but you still can heal him with healing spells by targeting him. Not sure but I believe Dominated enemies with MM are affected by Auras, but it's been a long time!

-Area Roots compared to Area Freeze or other similar spells isn't that much efficient. The best one is definitely Area Hypnotize as it lasts much more time than the other similar spells.

-Thornshield is improved by Str so the more Str you have on your avatar the more damage it will deal. This is why Nature, and in particular Thornshield, are recommended as an alternative for melee avatars, specially HCA.

Well that's about it. I' not bashing your post, not at all, as I think it's pretty good info. I just thought I'd give a bit more to it!

[reknak]

Pretty cool stuff man!

, Thanks

-AoR increases the regeneration rate of HP am MP so it doesn't actually heal. It just decreases the amount of time HP and MP take to regenerate.

, yes I actually meant regen, will change that now. Is the mana regen worth enough for a mage or summoner?

-Compared to other schools Nature's summons are pretty weak...all of them.

, in my opnion all spellforce 1 summonings are weak except for Blades, but although Treewraiths die rather easily they can deal much damage.

-When you Charm/Dominate an animal or enemy (with MM) you'll convert him into an NPC that protects you but you still can heal him with healing spells by targeting him. Not sure but I believe Dominated enemies with MM are affected by Auras, but it's been a long time!

, yes, forgot to mention that.

-Area Roots compared to Area Freeze or other similar spells isn't that much efficient. The best one is definitely Area Hypnotize as it lasts much more time than the other similar spells.

, I found it moderate, but yes area hyponotize is better especially with the bug I have (I can attack them and they won't awake because of that , sort of super area freeze).

-Thornshield is improved by Str so the more Str you have on your avatar the more damage it will deal. This is why Nature, and in particular Thornshield, are recommended as an alternative for melee avatars, specially HCA

, yes that's true, forgot to mention that to. You kind of me an idea, what if you use aura of strength with your Thorns (with max strength and charisma), it should be really strong right?

Well that's about it. I' not bashing your post, not at all, as I think it's pretty good info. I just thought I'd give a bit more to it!

, none taken

[Free Flinker]

Nice Work

I added a link to the Useful Info sticky thread above.

[Androdion]

Originally Posted by Reknak

Is the mana regen worth enough for a mage or summoner?

I don't think so...It's probably better if you use Enlightenment from MM school. Buffs on mages are better when you're only with your group of heroes so you can cast on all of them.

Originally Posted by Reknak

in my opnion all spellforce 1 summonings are weak except for Blades

Yep, Blades are pretty cool. But don't think less of Spectres, they're pretty useful too as they cast Pain. Also Elementals from Fire and Ice schools are very useful. Skeletons are also good but they're a bit sub-par on TOoD and BoW. They're pretty good on SotP!

Originally Posted by Reknak

I found it moderate, but yes area hyponotize is better especially with the bug I have (I can attack them and they won't awake because of that , sort of super area freeze).

Is that a bug?!

Originally Posted by Reknak

You kind of me an idea, what if you use aura of strength with your Thorns (with max strength and charisma), it should be really strong right?

Exactly! You got the point there. Spells like Thornshield don't take into account the base values but the actual values you have, buffed or not. Same goes for spells that are afected by higher levels of Cha, Int and Wis, if you use Charisma and/or Enlightenment.

[reknak]

Nice Work

I added a link to the Useful Info sticky thread above.

, thanks, one day I'll become famous!

Yep, Blades are pretty cool. But don't think less of Spectres, they're pretty useful too as they cast Pain. Also Elementals from Fire and Ice schools are very useful. Skeletons are also good but they're a bit sub-par on TOoD and BoW. They're pretty good on SotP!

, I do really like skeletons though, on every spell level they look different. On one of the spell levels you even summon a skeleton archer, I forgot though on which level it was (anyone?, 18?).

Is that a bug?!

, this is not a bug?! If not this spell is really imbalanced. Atm I just have to cast it sometimes (cause of the long duration), and let my summonings and spells do the rest of the job. Peanuts, without a scratch.

Exactly! You got the point there. Spells like Thornshield don't take into account the base values but the actual values you have, buffed or not. Same goes for spells that are afected by higher levels of Cha, Int and Wis, if you use Charisma and/or Enlightenment.

, maybe I will try this one day. Is Thorns also effected by the damage of the enemy that hits you? What about the Fireshield spell from elemental magic, how strong is that actually?

One question offtopic, how does effects like fireburst on weapons and summonings actually work (which level and the chance)? Also when a weapon has an effect like fireburst twice, do you than have twice the chance to cast it on an enemy?

[Androdion]

Originally Posted by Rekdak

I forgot though on which level it was (anyone?, 18?)

15 IIRC.

Originally Posted by Reknak

this is not a bug?! If not this spell is really imbalanced. Atm I just have to cast it sometimes (cause of the long duration), and let my summonings and spells do the rest of the job. Peanuts, without a scratch.

True! Kathai camps with this spell is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Originally Posted by Reknak

Is Thorns also effected by the damage of the enemy that hits you? What about the Fireshield spell from elemental magic, how strong is that actually?

Thornshield is affected by the amount of Str and Cha you have, since Cha increases the efficiency of WM. Fireshield and Iceshield are decent defensive spells specially the Ice because it will freeze enemies that melee you. It's not good to cause damage but for defensive purposes it will suffice.

Originally Posted by Reknak

One question offtopic, how does effects like fireburst on weapons and summonings actually work (which level and the chance)?

I didn't get what you mean...

Originally Posted by Reknak

Also when a weapon has an effect like fireburst twice, do you than have twice the chance to cast it on an enemy?

Not exactly. When a weapon has two effects you'll have the chance of hitting an enemy with either one. In practical terms you get to hit more effects on enemies but it doesn't actually double the amount of times you'll hit them with one of them. This part enters that strange math world that SF has. Maybe FF can explain you better.

[reknak]

True! Kathai camps with this spell is like shooting fish in a barrel.

, lol yeah, another nice combo with this spell are the rain spells.

I

didn't get what you mean...

, well for example, firedance has a chance to cause firestrike on an enemy you attack, do you know how big the chance is? And do you also know which level of fireburst it casts?

[Free Flinker]

Originally Posted by reknak

I, well for example, firedance has a chance to cause firestrike on an enemy you attack, do you know how big the chance is? And do you also know which level of fireburst it casts?

I don't think that proc chances were ever disclosed.

Something to consider though... logically, the faster the weapon speed the better in this respect. If you think about it, it makes sense because if the proc has a chance to take effect when you hit then the more often you hit, the more chances the proc gets to fire. It wouldn't matter whether the game mechanic used was a random % chance or every n swings, a faster weapon would still proc more often, on average, than a slower one. They could, of course, have complicated it with something like, for example, a point pool system in order to negate a faster weapon's advantage on procing but that is unlikely; not impossible though, so it's still theory, however plausible. One I'd personally run with though, if I wanted to use a proc weapon to best effect - I'd use LCA instead of HCA, add +weapon speed items and pick a secondary skill of WM:Boons, for AoFF.

Actual stats on chance to proc aren't really necessary. Think about it, you'd still try the same tricks, whether they worked or not. And besides, would knowing a proc has a 25% chance to fire (arbitrary figure pulled from thin air, AFAIK) affect your gameplay? I don't think it would, only if different weapons had a different chance to proc, which I guess is another way they could have normalised the varying weapon speeds factor, as is varying the damage/fx of a proc on a per weapon basis so as I say, just theory, though worth considering all the same

Originally Posted by Androdion

Maybe FF can explain you better.

I don't think I could explain it any better than you just did

[reknak]

I don't think that proc chances were ever disclosed.

Something to consider though... logically, the faster the weapon speed the better in this respect. If you think about it, it makes sense because if the proc has a chance to take effect when you hit then the more often you hit, the more chances the proc gets to fire. It wouldn't matter whether the game mechanic used was a random % chance or every n swings, a faster weapon would still proc more often, on average, than a slower one. They could, of course, have complicated it with something like, for example, a point pool system in order to negate a faster weapon's advantage on procing but that is unlikely; not impossible though, so it's still theory, however plausible. One I'd personally run with though, if I wanted to use a proc weapon to best effect - I'd use LCA instead of HCA, add +weapon speed items and pick a secondary skill of WM:Boons, for AoFF.

, from personal experience with it, I think your right about .

Actual stats on chance to proc aren't really necessary. Think about it, you'd still try the same tricks, whether they worked or not. And besides, would knowing a proc has a 25% chance to fire (arbitrary figure pulled from thin air, AFAIK) affect your gameplay? I don't think it would, only if different weapons had a different chance to proc, which I guess is another way they could have normalised the varying weapon speeds factor, as is varying the damage/fx of a proc on a per weapon basis so as I say, just theory, though worth considering all the same

, well to be honest, I actually think it matters for chosing your weapons. For instance, if the effect has twice the chance to work, it's twice as good and for instance if you got Hirin's Staff with three effects it really makes a difference how good the effects are. Btw, what is proc?

I don't think I could explain it any better than you just did

, yes Androdion you explained it well, thanks for the info.

[Free Flinker]

Originally Posted by reknak

, well to be honest, I actually think it matters for chosing your weapons. For instance, if the effect has twice the chance to work, it's twice as good and for instance if you got Hirin's Staff with three effects it really makes a difference how good the effects are. Btw, what is proc?

But as Androdion explained, that's not how it works, at least as far as anyone can ascertain.

In any event, the fact that multiple proc fx are listed is as good an indication as any that the weapon is more powerful, or at least more versatile. Observation should suffice to fill in what you need to know.

There is something to be said for knowing proc chance when it comes to choosing between a weapon with proc fx and one without, assuming stats are similar. However, that's not essential either because you can always observe the differences, judging how effective each is. Ultimately it won't matter even if you end up with a weaker weapon, providing the game is still playable/enjoyable. Experimenting can be fun too and while I personally don't really like hidden stats in games, on principle (usually that the devs excuses for not including them are pure opinion while too many express them as if they're facts), I can't say that not knowing exactly how often something procs has affected my enjoyment of SF one bit.

If it is random then it wouldn't really help anyway. For example, if the stat really was 25% then just because I got 3 procs in a row or no proc for 20 swings means nothing when it's random - it's effectively a guide, not a guarantee that 1 swing in 4 will proc. Not everyone gets that however, which leads to as many complaints that "it's not working" as it does complaints "it's not known". From a forum discussion pov, there's not really a difference, assuming random chance is in fact involved (and I believe it is).

[Androdion]

Speaking of proc fx levels, in theory they would be the same level as the weapon they're in but in fact that isn't so. For instance Hirinstaff would have Death Lv.15 and IIRC Death effect on it causes around 150 damage and Lv.12 Death causes, again IIRC, 250 so it's not that linear. But as FF says it doesn't affect gameplay! There are in fact some weapons where proc doesn't seem to work, and two I can remember instantly are the Medusa bow and one mage staff I can't remember the name, but both have Petrify effect. OTOH there are those where the proc seems to hit a lot more than others. That's probably related to weapon speed as FF says.

Hirinstaff has three effects: Iceburst, Fireburst, Death. So which one will hit?! No one can tell you but the devs, and if it's really random they can't also! The fact is they'll hit randomly AFAIK but the fact that you have three proc fx as opposed to just one means that you'll hit them more often because the probability of that happening increases due to having more. Think of statistical math, that's about it. Even though chances are even for each effect, having more than one increases the global probability of hitting just one. Now which one it will hit...

[Free Flinker]

Originally Posted by Androdion

Speaking of proc fx levels, in theory they would be the same level as the weapon they're in but in fact that isn't so. For instance Hirinstaff would have Death Lv.15 and IIRC Death effect on it causes around 150 damage and Lv.12 Death causes, again IIRC, 250 so it's not that linear. But as FF says it doesn't affect gameplay! There are in fact some weapons where proc doesn't seem to work, and two I can remember instantly are the Medusa bow and one mage staff I can't remember the name, but both have Petrify effect. OTOH there are those where the proc seems to hit a lot more than others. That's probably related to weapon speed as FF says.

You'd expect things to be balanced though, and that counts for more. For example, you wouldn't expect a L1 dagger to proc a L15 effect, or vice versa, unless it was a balance issue so there was a good reason for it of course. I suspect that proc fx are seperate from spell fx though, even if they are similar, or even individualised rather than levelled, purely for balance purposes.

Hirinstaff has three effects: Iceburst, Fireburst, Death. So which one will hit?! No one can tell you but the devs, and if it's really random they can't also! The fact is they'll hit randomly AFAIK but the fact that you have three proc fx as opposed to just one means that you'll hit them more often because the probability of that happening increases due to having more. Think of statistical math, that's about it. Even though chances are even for each effect, having more than one increases the global probability of hitting just one. Now which one it will hit...

What we have to keep in mind is that there are any number of ways to set this particular game mechanic so without hard data it's difficult to say how it works, not with any degree of certainty. Unfortunately, I don't believe anyone's provided any solid data on it and my memory is a little fuzzy on specifics, given how long since I played SF1 regularly. That said, I think it safe to assume it's all done logically and consistently (at least from a balance perspective) even if not everything was balanced perfectly (but perfect balance = everything is the same cuz there's no other way to achieve it = very boring).

The main thing, however, is that the interplay of stats against or with one another would make any character based on knowledge of every detail at least very complex and perhaps even as opinionated as characters based on not knowing every detail for certain. When you consider different playstyles, different personal preferences and different player abilities then the bottom line, IMO, is this... it doesn't really matter when it comes to discussing it, or even playing the game. Min-maxing is over-rated anyway. Sure, it'd be nice to be able to read the fine print but the fact that we don't know everything doesn't really affect SF gameplay that much. It's not like we can't get any mileage out of discussing it and if some day, someone manages to pin those details down, how much cooler is that for them and how much more interesting is it for us to be able to read about it several years later when we've done every other topic to death

[reknak]

Damn, you guys really like to write, don't you ?

Ultimately it won't matter even if you end up with a weaker weapon, providing the game is still playable/enjoyable.

, agreed, was just interested in how works (and thanks to you guys I know now ).

Speaking of proc fx levels, in theory they would be the same level as the weapon they're in but in fact that isn't so. For instance Hirinstaff would have Death Lv.15 and IIRC Death effect on it causes around 150 damage and Lv.12 Death causes, again IIRC, 250 so it's not that linear. But as FF says it doesn't affect gameplay! There are in fact some weapons where proc doesn't seem to work, and two I can remember instantly are the Medusa bow and one mage staff I can't remember the name, but both have Petrify effect. OTOH there are those where the proc seems to hit a lot more than others. That's probably related to weapon speed as FF says.

Hirinstaff has three effects: Iceburst, Fireburst, Death. So which one will hit?! No one can tell you but the devs, and if it's really random they can't also! The fact is they'll hit randomly AFAIK but the fact that you have three proc fx as opposed to just one means that you'll hit them more often because the probability of that happening increases due to having more. Think of statistical math, that's about it. Even though chances are even for each effect, having more than one increases the global probability of hitting just one. Now which one it will hit...

, thanks for clearing that up.

(but perfect balance = everything is the same cuz there's no other way to achieve it = very boring).

, I agree.

[Free Flinker]

Originally Posted by reknak

Damn, you guys really like to write, don't you ?

What else are we going to do on a message board How much we typed here are just brief notes compared to some discussions though

[Androdion]

Originally Posted by Free Flinker

How much we typed here are just brief notes compared to some discussions though

Indeed!

[mordo]

Does cure disease depend on spell lv or charisma ?
or both ?

[Androdion]

Well cure disease only affects units infected with pestilence. All WM spells are affected by the amount of Cha and all spells in the game are affected by their level.

But the truth is I've never used the spell...

[mordo]

I was thinking of free game, if i get infested by a lv 20 pestilence by another player, will cure disease lv 2 save me if i got plenti charisma ?
Time will tell, i hope to report later today

[Androdion]

I have absolutely no idea! As you know I don't play MP. Anyway of all the times I've played SF my avatar never got infected by Pestilence so for SP purposes it's pretty much useless!